Community Standards and Posting Policies

1. Community Standards

The purpose of EpicureanFriends is to study and promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Participants in this site are in no way “members” of any organization with specific code of beliefs, but in order to implement the goals of the forum all users are expected to familiarize themselves with the major doctrines of Epicurus as discussed here. Further clarification as to tone and content is provided in our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean statement below. Specific posting guidelines are provided in our Posting Policy statement also below. Discussion of these Community Standards / Rules of the Forum is here.

1.1. Classical Epicurean Philosophy

Click here or on any of the items below for a listing of the major doctrines of Epicurean Philosophy emphasized on this website, which are:

Nothing Can Be Created From Nothing.
The Universe Is Infinite And Eternal And Has No Gods Over It
Gods Have No Attributes Inconsistent With Blessedness And Incorruptibility
Death Is Nothing To Us.
There Is No Necessity To Live Under The Control Of Necessity.
He Who Says That Nothing Can Be Known Knows Nothing
All Sensations Are True
Virtue Is Not Absolute Or An End In Itself — All Good And Evil Consists In Sensation.
Pleasure is The Guide of Life.
By Pleasure We Mean The Absence Of Pain (All Experience That Is Not Painful)
Life Is Desirable, But Unlimited Time Contains No Greater Pleasure Than Limited Time.

2. Posting Policies

2.1. No Contemporary Politics

This forum is dedicated to promoting the philosophy of Epicurus, and not to any partisan political positions whether “left,” “right,” or “center.” The task of rediscovering Epicurean philosophy requires that such discussions be held elsewhere. Posts and accounts regularly violating this rule are subject to removal.

2.2. No Supernatural Religion

Epicurean philosophy firmly rejects the viewpoint that there are any supernatural forces which define right and wrong conduct, and so arguments based on such premises are improper for the forum. Posts and accounts regularly violating this rule are subject to removal.

2.3. No Absolute Virtue

Epicurean philosophy rejects the existence of absolute virtues or Platonic ideals of any kind. Arguments which are based on claims of “absolute” virtues or ideals are improper for this forum and are subject to removal. While viewpoints on particular virtues and particular ideals are extremely important to our personal pleasure and happiness, those things will differ between people over time and location and all sorts of circumstances. The overall goal of promoting Epicurean philosophy has to deal with this tension: We are (through Epicurean doctrines) encouraging everyone to understand and follow their feelings of pleasure, but at the same time we have to recognize that not everyone is going to have the same feelings about the same things, and that conflicts are going to arise between people under certain circumstances. If we allow the forum to be dominated by one moral or political viewpoint, then the project is jeopardized. The general promotion of Epicurean philosophy is more important to the mission than any day-to-day political position. Those who wish to pursue a special moral or political viewpoint may do so in their own circles.

2.4. Other Posting Policies - Rules of the Forum

Posters shall respect the right of each member to “live unknown” to the extent that he or she sees fit. Postings here are available to others to reread for an indefinite time in the future, so please post responsibly.
Posters shall adhere to the purpose of this forum, which is to participate in a community of friends to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Many forums for the discussion of other philosophers exist elsewhere, and discussion of other philosophies should be done here only to assist in the better understanding of Epicurus. Posts which are primarily discussion of non-Epicurean ideas should be made elsewhere.
In order to encourage the free flow of information, participants are welcome to register with a pseudonym / “pen name.” Use of real names is not necessary, and posting of personal information of any kind should be minimized. Participants are free to disclose personal information about themselves as they see fit, but personal information about participants shall not be disclosed without their consent.
Discussion of specific modern political issues should be severely limited. That is not because Epicurean philosophy has no application to these issues, but because we are in the early stages of building a viable Epicurean community, and contentious discussion of specific political issues which divide us before that can be accomplished is not consistent with the goal of this site. Please keep the big picture in perspective, and if you must discuss application of Epicurus to modern politics please do it privately or elsewhere.
Do not create posts composed of nothing other than links. Any links to locations outside the forum must contain comment on whether they are endorsed or criticized which explain how they relate to the forum.
All posts are subject to moderation. Leadership of the forum retains at all times the right to accept, reject, and remove any post and any participant at any time for any reason.

3. Not NeoEpicurean, But Epicurean

The following is a short summary of principles which are important for understanding Epicurus and participating in discussion at the EpicureanFriends Forum. It is not intended to address all aspects of Epicurean philosophy. As time allows we will supplement the citations below with more citations and explanatory articles.

Not “flourishing,” “human potential,” “self-actualization,” or “meaningfulness,” but happiness grounded in the feeling of pleasure.
Not “absence of pain” as a full statement of the goal of life, but “the Feelings are two, pleasure and pain” and “Pleasure is the beginning and the end of a happy life.”
Not virtue for the sake of virtue, but virtue as instrumental for the attainment of pleasure.
Not “the greatest good for the greatest number,” but “Every desire must be confronted with this question: What will happen to me if the object of my desire is accomplished and what if it is not?”
Not “humanism,” “transhumanism,” “individualism,” “collectivism,” “egoism,” “altruism,” “social progress,” “Marxism,” “democracy,” “tyranny,” or any “one size fits all” political ideal of any kind, but social structure based on friendship which “is formed and maintained by means of a community of life among those who have reached the fullness of pleasure.”
Not “hard determinism” but “some things happen from necessity, some from chance, and others through our own choice.”
Not “supernaturalism” but “materialism.”
Not “supernatural gods,” or “life after death,” but confidence in a fully material universe and “for those men for whom wisdom is possible, and who do seek it, such men may truly live as gods.”
Not only “short term hedonism,” but “it is to continuous pleasures that I invite you.”
Not “rationalism,” but “all reason is dependent upon sensations.”
Not fearful of death nor careless of losing life, but valuing life for the opportunity of pleasure it brings.

Note: Supporting citations from primary Epicurean sources for each of the above principles are provided in the Citations section at the bottom of this page.

4. Terms of Use

By registering and participating at EpicureanFriends.com you are deemed to have agreed to our Terms of Use Document [ADD LINK], which is a requirement of registration.

5. Participant Levels

EpicureanFriends.com is an on-line community dedicated to the study, promotion, and practice of Classical Epicurean Philosophy. As with the ancient Epicureans, it is both a place of learning and a community of people working together in the same general direction - a team. Our goal is not to educate passive observers but friends in the Epicurean tradition, actively carrying forward Epicurean activity in the modern world.

At the same time, EpicureanFriends.com is not a hierarchical organization where all participants are required to agree with everything the ancient Epicureans ever said or wrote. While participation at higher levels indicates closer agreement with a larger number of Epicurean positions, no participant submits to any code of conduct or requirements that apply outside the EpicureanFriends forum. Our participation level designations apply only to activities on the forum.

Many of our forums and resources are open to the public as part of our educational outreach program. Full participation in the community, however, including posting, access to non-public sections, and participation in our Zoom meetings, is reserved for those who demonstrate commitment to the goals of the community.

A major purpose of the participant level system is to indicate to guests and new members to how much weight to give to what they are reading. We allow guests and newcomers to ask questions and make posts that may not contain accurate information or perceptive opinions, and indicating the poster’s level of participant indicates to readers how to separate posts that are likely to be well-founded and consistent with core Epicurean principles from those which are not.

Epicurean Philosophy does not consider all opinions to be equally true, and EpicureanFriends.com does not allow any and all opinions to be advocated. EpicureanFriends promotes specifically Epicurean positions. This does not prevent the posting of good-faith questioning and disagreement, but it does exclude sustained advocacy against core Epicurean positions. If you are perceptive enough to be interested in Epicurean philosophy in the first place, you are perceptive enough to know the line between educational discussion and advocacy against core Epicurean positions. Any questions about that line can easily be clarified by asking a moderator prior to a public posting.

Level Naming System

We have adopted several different naming systems over the years, most of which are focused numerically with higher levels indicating longer and closer participation on the forum. In an effort to make it more clear to new readers which posts are more likely to be closer to the consensus of forum leadership, we are trying out a new naming scheme which reflects the “team-building” aspect of EpicureanFriends.

1 — Guest

Guests are newly registered members who are in the process of exploring EpicureanFriends and establishing both for themselves and for the community whether they are a good fit for the EpicureanFriends team. Guests are limited to posting in the Welcome forum, where we confirm that new registrants are real people engaging in good faith exploration of Epicurus. In order to address spam and trolling problems, Guests are required to respond to a Welcome email with basic information about their background in Epicurus, and to make their first post in the Welcome forum as part of this process. We suggest all guests review the exchanges with previous newcomers to see how this process works.

2 — New Friend

Members have demonstrated enough engagement and good faith to be welcomed into the main forums. They are invited to post across the public discussion areas of the site and to attend new member meet-and-greet Zoom sessions. Guests are promoted to Member status after a period of time and posting sufficient for the moderating team to extend a member invitation. Members can be presumed to be “on the team” and participating, but they have not yet demonstrated the long-term commitment that characterizes a Trusted Friend.

3 — Trusted Friend

Trusted Friends are the fully committed, long-standing core of the EpicureanFriends community. While Trusted Friends do not agree on everything, the name reflects the full Epicurean sense of friendship: not casual acquaintance but a bond built on shared values, sustained engagement, and demonstrated trustworthiness over time. Trusted Friends have the ability to post in all forums, including forums restricted to this level, and are invited to participate in the Wednesday Night Study Zoom and the Twentieth Gathering Zoom — the forum’s more advanced and intimate study sessions. Reaching Trusted Friend status means the community has come to know you, trust your commitment to Classical Epicurean philosophy, and welcome you into the deeper levels of the shared project. Posts from Trusted Friends carry the credibility of that sustained relationship.

4 — Captains

Captains are Trusted Friends who have demonstrated deep commitment to the goals of the forum and who participate in the responsibility of maintaining the quality and direction of discussion. Captains may be contacted through the private message system.

5 — Administrators

Administrators are responsible for the overall direction and operation of the forum. All participation on the forum is subject to moderation, and leadership of the forum retains at all times the right to accept, reject, and remove any post or any participant at any time for any reason.

Participant Level Decisions — All decisions as to movement of participants from level to level are at the discretion of the Administration and Captain/Moderation team, the decisions of which are made at their sole discretion.

Inactive accounts — Participants who do not continue to participate on the forum within six months are have not posted within the last two years are moved to the Inactive list. An Inactive account can be reactivated by posting in the Welcome forum or by messaging an Administrator.

6. Zoom Meeting Access by Level

The forum hosts several regular Zoom sessions with different levels of access:

Meeting	Access
New Member Meet-and-Greet (First Monday)	Member (Level 2) and above
Wednesday Night Study Group	Trusted Friend (Level 3) and above
Twentieth Gathering	Trusted Friend (Level 3) and above

Zoom links are distributed only to registered participants via the forum’s private message system. Meetings are largely informal, typically lasting one to ninety minutes, with five to ten regular participants. All general forum rules apply in Zoom sessions. Attendance need not be consistent — participants join as their schedules allow.

Citations To The “Not Neo-Epicurean But Epicurean” List

Supporting citations from primary Epicurean sources for the eleven principles listed in Section 3.

1. Not “flourishing” or “human potential” or “self-actualization” or “meaningfulness,” but happiness grounded in the feeling of pleasure.

Diogenes of Oinoanda: If, gentlemen, the point at issue between these people and us involved inquiry into “what is the means of happiness?” and they wanted to say “the virtues” (which would actually be true), it would be unnecessary to take any other step than to agree with them about this, without more ado. But since, as I say, the issue is not “what is the means of happiness?” but “what is happiness and what is the ultimate goal of our nature?,” I say both now and always, shouting out loudly to all Greeks and non-Greeks, that pleasure is the end of the best mode of life, while the virtues, which are inopportunely messed about by these people (being transferred from the place of the means to that of the end), are in no way an end, but the means to the end.

2. Not “absence of pain” as a full statement of the goal of life, but “the Feelings are two, pleasure and pain” and “Pleasure is the beginning and the end of a happy life.”

Article by Elayne Coulter “On Pain, Pleasure, And Happiness”
Diogenes Laertius: “They affirm that there are two states of feeling, pleasure and pain, which arise in every animate being, and that the one is favorable and the other hostile to that being, and by their means choice and avoidance are determined; and that there are two kinds of inquiry, the one concerned with things, the other with nothing but words.”
Letter to Menoeceus: “Wherefore we call pleasure the alpha and omega of a blessed life. Pleasure is our first and kindred good. It is the starting-point of every choice and of every aversion, and to it we come back, inasmuch as we make feeling the rule by which to judge of every good thing.”
PD03: The magnitude of pleasure reaches its limit in the removal of all pain. When such pleasure is present, so long as it is uninterrupted, there is no pain either of body or of mind or of both together.
PD22: We must consider both the ultimate end and all clear sensory evidence, to which we refer our opinions; for otherwise everything will be full of uncertainty and confusion.
Torquatus in On Ends: “Let us imagine a man living in the continuous enjoyment of numerous and vivid pleasures alike of body and of mind, undisturbed either by the presence or by the prospect of pain: what possible state of existence could we describe as being more excellent or more desirable? One so situated must possess in the first place a strength of mind that is proof against all fear of death or of pain; he will know that death means complete unconsciousness, and that pain is generally light if long and short if strong, so that its intensity is compensated by brief duration and its continuance by diminishing severity. Let such a man moreover have no dread of any supernatural power; let him never suffer the pleasures of the past to fade away, but constantly renew their enjoyment in recollection, and his lot will be one which will not admit of further improvement.”
VS63: There is also a limit in simple living, and he who fails to understand this falls into an error as great as that of the man who gives way to extravagance.

3. Not virtue for the sake of virtue, but virtue as instrumental for the attainment of pleasure.

Diogenes of Oinoanda: If, gentlemen, the point at issue between these people and us involved inquiry into “what is the means of happiness?” and they wanted to say “the virtues” (which would actually be true), it would be unnecessary to take any other step than to agree with them about this, without more ado. But since, as I say, the issue is not “what is the means of happiness?” but “what is happiness and what is the ultimate goal of our nature?,” I say both now and always, shouting out loudly to all Greeks and non-Greeks, that pleasure is the end of the best mode of life, while the virtues, which are inopportunely messed about by these people (being transferred from the place of the means to that of the end), are in no way an end, but the means to the end.
Torquatus in Cicero’s On Ends: “Those who place the Chief Good in virtue alone are beguiled by the glamour of a name, and do not understand the true demands of nature. If they will consent to listen to Epicurus, they will be delivered from the grossest error. Your school dilates on the transcendent beauty of the virtues; but were they not productive of pleasure, who would deem them either praiseworthy or desirable? We esteem the art of medicine not for its interest as a science, but for its conduciveness to health; the art of navigation is commended for its practical and not its scientific value, because it conveys the rules for sailing a ship with success. So also Wisdom, which must be considered as the art of living, if it effected no result would not be desired; but as it is, it is desired, because it is the artificer that procures and produces pleasure.”

4. Not “the greatest good for the greatest number,” but “Every desire must be confronted with this question: What will happen to me if the object of my desire is accomplished and what if it is not?”

VS71: Question each of your desires: “What will happen to me if that which this desire seeks is achieved, and what if it is not?”
VS50 (PD 8): No pleasure is a bad thing in itself, but the things which produce certain pleasures entail disturbances many times greater than the pleasures themselves.
PD06: In order to obtain protection from other men, any means for attaining this end is a natural good.
PD39: The man who best knows how to meet external threats makes into one family all the creatures he can; and those he can not, he at any rate does not treat as aliens; and where he finds even this impossible, he avoids all dealings, and, so far as is advantageous, excludes them from his life.
PD40: Those who possess the power to defend themselves against threats by their neighbors, being thus in possession of the surest guarantee of security, live the most pleasant life with one another.

5. Not “humanism,” “individualism,” “collectivism,” “egoism” or “altruism” or “social progress,” but friendship which “is formed and maintained by means of community of life among those who have reached the fullness of pleasure.”

Diogenes Laertius (Bailey): “That friendship too has practical needs as its motive: one must indeed lay its foundations (for we sow the ground too for the sake of crops), but it is formed and maintained by means of community of life among those who have reached the fullness of pleasure.”
PD17: The just man is most free from disturbance, while the unjust is full of the utmost disturbance.
PD14: Protection from other men, secured to some extent by the power to expel and by material prosperity, in its purest form comes from a quiet life withdrawn from the multitude.
PD27: Of all the means which wisdom acquires to ensure happiness throughout the whole of life, by far the most important is friendship.
PD31: Natural justice is a pledge of reciprocal benefit, to prevent one man from harming or being harmed by another.
PD32: Those animals which are incapable of making binding agreements with one another not to inflict nor suffer harm are without either justice or injustice; and likewise for those peoples who either could not or would not form binding agreements not to inflict nor suffer harm.
PD33: There never was such a thing as absolute justice, but only agreements made in mutual dealings among men in whatever places at various times providing against the infliction or suffering of harm.
PD34: Injustice is not an evil in itself, but only in consequence of the fear which is associated with the apprehension of being discovered by those appointed to punish such actions.
PD35: It is impossible for a man who secretly violates the terms of the agreement not to harm or be harmed to feel confident that he will remain undiscovered, even if he has already escaped ten thousand times; for until his death he is never sure that he will not be detected.
PD36: In general, justice is the same for all, for it is something found mutually beneficial in men’s dealings, but in its application to particular places or other circumstances the same thing is not necessarily just for everyone.
PD37: Among the things held to be just by law, whatever is proved to be of advantage in men’s dealings has the stamp of justice, whether or not it be the same for all; but if a man makes a law and it does not prove to be mutually advantageous, then this is no longer just. And if what is mutually advantageous varies and only for a time corresponds to our concept of justice, nevertheless for that time it is just for those who do not trouble themselves about empty words, but look simply at the facts.
PD38: Where without any change in circumstances the things held to be just by law are seen not to correspond with the concept of justice in actual practice, such laws are not really just; but wherever the laws have ceased to be advantageous because of a change in circumstances, in that case the laws were for that time just when they were advantageous for the mutual dealings of the citizens, and subsequently ceased to be just when they were no longer advantageous.
PD39: The man who best knows how to meet external threats makes into one family all the creatures he can; and those he can not, he at any rate does not treat as aliens; and where he finds even this impossible, he avoids all dealings, and, so far as is advantageous, excludes them from his life.
PD40: Those who possess the power to defend themselves against threats by their neighbors, being thus in possession of the surest guarantee of security, live the most pleasant life with one another; and their enjoyment of the fullest intimacy is such that if one of them dies prematurely, the others do not lament his death as though it called for pity.

6. Not “hard determinism” but “some things happen from necessity, some from chance, and others through our own choice.”

Letter to Menoeceus: “Fate, which some introduce as sovereign over all things, he scorns, affirming rather that some things happen of necessity, others by chance, others through our own agency. For he sees that necessity destroys responsibility and that chance is inconstant; whereas our own actions are autonomous, and it is to them that praise and blame naturally attach. It were better, indeed, to accept the legends of the gods than to bow beneath that yoke of destiny which the natural philosophers have imposed. The one holds out some faint hope that we may escape if we honor the gods, while the necessity of the naturalists is deaf to all entreaties. Nor does he hold chance to be a god, as the world in general does, for in the acts of a god there is no disorder; nor to be a cause, though an uncertain one, for he believes that no good or evil is dispensed by chance to men so as to make life blessed, though it supplies the starting-point of great good and great evil. He believes that the misfortune of the wise is better than the prosperity of the fool. It is better, in short, that what is well judged in action should not owe its successful issue to the aid of chance.”
Lucretius Book Two: “Once again, if every motion is always linked on, and the new always arises from the old in order determined, nor by swerving do the first-beginnings make a certain start of movement to break through the decrees of fate, so that cause may not follow cause from infinite time; whence comes this free will for living things all over the earth, whence, I ask, is it wrested from fate, this will whereby we move forward, where pleasure leads each one of us, and swerve likewise in our motions neither at determined times nor in a determined direction of place, but just where our mind has carried us? For without doubt it is his own will which gives to each one a start for this movement, and from the will the motions pass flooding through the limbs.”

7. Not supernaturalism but materialism.

Letter to Herodotus: “First of all, that nothing is created out of that which does not exist: for if it were, everything would be created out of everything with no need of seeds. And again, if that which disappears were destroyed into that which did not exist, all things would have perished, since that into which they were dissolved would not exist. Furthermore, the universe always was such as it is now, and always will be the same. For there is nothing into which it changes: for outside the universe there is nothing which could come into it and bring about the change. Moreover, the universe is bodies and space: for that bodies exist, sense itself witnesses in the experience of all men.”
Lucretius, Book 1: “But now, to weave again at the web, which is the task of my discourse, all nature then, as it is of itself, is built of these two things: for there are bodies and the void, in which they are placed and where they move hither and thither.”

8. Not “Supernatural Gods,” or “Life After Death,” but confidence in a fully material universe, and for those for whom wisdom is possible, “then truly the life of the gods will pass to men.”

Epicurus’ Letter to Menoeceus: “Meditate therefore on these things and things akin to them night and day by yourself; and with a companion like to yourself, and never shall you be disturbed waking or asleep, but you shall live like a god among men. For a man who lives among immortal blessings is not like unto a mortal being.”
Diogenes of Oinoanda Fr. 56: “[So we shall not achieve wisdom universally], since not all are capable of it. But if we assume it to be possible, then truly the life of the gods will pass to men. For everything will be full of justice and mutual love, and there will come to be no need of fortifications or laws and all the things which we contrive on account of one another.”

9. Not only “short term hedonism” but “it is to continuous pleasures that I invite you.”

Letter to Anaxarchus: “But I summon you to continuous pleasures and not to vain and empty virtues which have but disturbing hopes of results.”
Letter to Menoeceus: “And even as men choose of food not merely and simply the larger portion, but the more pleasant, so the wise seek to enjoy the time which is most pleasant and not merely that which is longest.”
Torquatus in On Ends: “The truth of the position that pleasure is the ultimate good will most readily appear from the following illustration. Let us imagine a man living in the continuous enjoyment of numerous and vivid pleasures alike of body and of mind, undisturbed either by the presence or by the prospect of pain: what possible state of existence could we describe as being more excellent or more desirable?”

10. Not “rationalism,” but “all reason is dependent upon sensations.”

Diogenes Laertius: “Nor is there anything which can refute sensations or convict them of error: one sensation cannot convict another and kindred sensation, for they are equally valid; nor can one sensation refute another which is not kindred but heterogeneous, for the objects which the two senses judge are not the same; nor again can reason refute them, for reason is wholly dependent on sensation; nor can one sense refute another, since we pay equal heed to all. And the reality of separate perceptions guarantees the truth of our senses. But seeing and hearing are just as real as feeling pain.”
Lucretius Book Four: “Again, if any one thinks that nothing is known, he knows not whether that can be known either, since he admits that he knows nothing. Against him then I will refrain from joining issue, who plants himself with his head in the place of his feet. And yet were I to grant that he knows this too, yet I would ask this one question; since he has never before seen any truth in things, whence does he know what is knowing, and not knowing each in turn, what thing has begotten the concept of the true and the false, what thing has proved that the doubtful differs from the certain? You will find that the concept of the true is begotten first from the senses, and that the senses cannot be gainsaid.”

11. Not fearful of death nor careless of losing life, but valuing life for the opportunity of pleasure it brings.

Letter to Menoeceus: “The wise man does not deprecate life nor does he fear the cessation of life. The thought of life is no offense to him, nor is the cessation of life regarded as an evil. And even as men choose of food not merely and simply the larger portion, but the more pleasant, so the wise seek to enjoy the time which is most pleasant and not merely that which is longest. And he who admonishes the young to live well and the old to make a good end speaks foolishly, not merely because of the desirability of life, but because the same exercise at once teaches to live well and to die well. Much worse is he who says that it were good not to be born, but when once one is born to pass quickly through the gates of Hades. For if he truly believes this, why does he not depart from life? It would be easy for him to do so once he were firmly convinced. If he speaks only in jest, his words are foolishness as those who hear him do not believe.”